Bette Midler Buffa
Christopher Stone

Special thanks to Steve Weiner for sharing this article 


Bette Miller was one of the first major stars to grant The ADVOCATE an exclusive interview - back in April 1975. She was also the first woman to grace this publication's cover. At the time, the star was in rehearsal for her Clams on the Half-Shell Revue.

Half Shell Revue went on to make 1,800,000 clams, the largest gross in Broadway history for a 10-week engagement. She then barnstormed across America with a 20-city tour of a two and a half hour show that was later aired coast-to-coast on pay television. During the tour, Midler made headlines by telling The Chicago Tribune, "I don't have a gay following. I wouldn't know a homosexual if I saw one!" She saw plenty of them last Sept. 22, as headliner of the mangled Star-Spangled Night for Human Rights at the Hollywood Bowl.

Sales of her third album, Songs for the New Depression, were depressing. There were problems launching a film career, and announced shows for ABC-TV never materialized.

Now everything's coming up roses with a movie, The Rose, set to start in March. A network special airs on NBC Dec. 7. She's recording an album and is currently on tour in a brand new show.

Bette and I met on a windy Sunday afternoon in Beverly Hills at the Cafe of the Pink Turtle, a frantic-hued coffee shop in the Beverly Wilshire Hotel. The star was overworked, rehearsing her club act. The woman was lonely for her boyfriend. She had a cold that should have kept her in bed. Still, Bette greeted me with a smile and answered questions about everything from stardom to sex fantasies.

Midler: Hell-ooo. How are you?

I am wonderful.

Oh, I'm so glad you think so. I'm so sick. I really am .. . I'll tell you what happened. I was taking this cough medicine the doctor prescribed and I was getting high. Terrifically high. So high that I was drinking it steadily for a whole day. I mean, I couldn't wait for the four hours to be up so I could get high again. And I was thinking, "Gosh, this is really great! Now what's the next step up from this?" But I woke up yesterday with such a hangover. I mean, my head was splitting.

Waitress: Are you ready to order?

Midler: I want a hamburger with everything on it. Sloppy. Go ahead, ask me anything.

You've been rehearsing a new show ...

We're going back to the clubs. Little tiny rooms. The kind of rooms I used to work - six months ago. It's not going to be a real fancy act or anything. It's going to be more like what I did when I first started out, which is just all kinds of music and a lot of it. Clubs.

What about the TV special?

It's really good. I think it's good. It doesn't look like anything you've ever seen before.

Did you have censorship problems?

None at all. None. But there's nothing offensive in this show. The show is just good, clean fun - well, it's good fun. You know how I am. I'm a little dizzy and ... most people don't get a chance to be as dizzy as I am on TV. Dustin's on the show. And Emmett Kelly's on it.

Are you doing the Pearl movie?

I'm doing a movie called The Rose. It's about a rock'n' roll singer who's on a path of self-destruction and it sort of relates to Pearl in that the idea is somewhat similar. But it's not the story of Janis Joplin and it's not Pearl. I didn't want to do anything that was relating to Janis. I think it would be doing her a disservice and me a disservice as well.

Do you want to be a big movie star?

Well, there's no such thing as a big movie star any more. Those days are over and it's hard for people to come to grips with that because everyone loved it so much. It doesn't exist any more - that kind of big movie star we're talking about.

Streisand might disagree.

Even she isn't quite like what they used to be. Because no one has that gigantic studio apparatus behind them any more. Those were thousands of people working to pull the wool over people's eyes. The myths they made up about those stars - nobody ever told the truth in those days. Those people really didn't exist in the first place. They were manufactured. People don't do that anymore. So you can't be that anymore. But I would like to be a solid citizen in films, yes. But I don't have any hope of being a big movie star. I mean, no one does.

Well, maybe I do. I think that's the wrong tack to take, somehow. That's too negative. Let's not put that in. Let's say, yes ... Yes, I think I will be the most glamorous star who has risen in the Hollywood firmament. That's right. I will be the most glittering star in the Hollywood firmament and I think in about [she checks her watch] two and a half years.

Your watch says two and a half years to superstardom?

Yes it says two and a half years 'til you can die - safely.

Songs for the New Depression wasn't exactly greeted with open arms by the critics or public. Were you happy with it?

I liked it, yes. It gave me a chance to grow. I learned a lot about the studio that I hadn't known before. It gave me a chance to stretch into different kinds of things that I hadn't done before. My new album is, I think, a little more like what people would expect me to make.

Why didn't the public buy Songs?

I didn't have a lot of support for it on the label. I had gone off on my own and done it. It took me a long time to make it. I wasn't working. All those things combined to make it sort of a dud.

Why has it been so long between hit records?

Because I wasn't going after singles. I didn't know about singles. I didn't have any singles on that third album. When I first made records, I just made records and whoever bought them bought them. But when you're in a business and you find out you're in a business, you have to make an effort to learn about the business part of it. The business now dictates that you put singles out, and that in turn helps your L.P. sales. I've learned my lesson.

Why is it taking so long to launch your movie career?

I didn't want to do just garbage. Some of the things I was offered were not as good as I had hoped I would find.

Have you seen a script on The Rose?

Several.

Are you happy with what you've seen?

No, but I have the opportunity to change it and make it work for myself.

When does production begin?

We start in March. Marvin Worth is producing and Larry Peerce is directing.

Do you listen to your own records?

Yeah. I wasn't able to for a long time, but now I do. It's part of being a professional to listen and say, "I did this wrong," or "Let's fix that."

Do you ever listen just for enjoyment?

You mean, do I play my records at parties? No. I know my own work. When I listen to music I don't listen just to enjoy, I listen to learn. So when I put stuff on the record player it's to see what other people are doing. [Bette's hamburger arrives, sloppy, as ordered.] I very rarely eat in public. It's too private.

Maybe this isn't the right question to ask while you're eating, but ... last year you told The Chicago Tribune that questions about your gay following are "annoying, a real bore." Do you still feel that way?

Well, that woman was really a drag. She called me up at 7:00 in the morning and started pestering me, and in a really ugly tone of voice, too. I really didn't care for her ... No, I answer questions. I'm polite.

You also told the Tribune "I don't have a gay following. I wouldn't know a homosexual if l saw one!" Were you being facetious or was it a case of temporary amnesia?

Well, she was just so horrible. I was very angry. I was angry because I was sick and I was dead asleep when she called. Just try to put yourself in my place.

The reporter said that the time she placed the call had been pre-arranged and approved by you. Is that true?

I don't know if it's true or not. I don't remember.

How did you feel about the way that incident was blown up?

I don't remember.

You're not aware of the bad press?

No. I'm sorry. Did something happen?

A lot of gay people thought you were abandoning them.

Oh, well, how silly.

Have you been treated fairly by the press?

I don't pay a lot of attention to the press. I think it's best not to because they'll print anything. They will print anything! In effect, it's like listening to a bunch of old women. It's all gossip.

Do you read gossip about other people?

I rarely read gossip. It drives me mad. It drives me insane. Because I know that most of it is lies. And I know that most of the stuff that's written about people would hurt their feelings if they read it.

And I don't pay attention to things like that Tribune story, either. I mean, the fact that I was exhausted and I was sick and this woman was just horrible. She was really ugly on the telephone and I just lost my temper. I'm not going to put myself in chains for that.

What am I supposed to do, take my clothes off at high noon to apologize? I was trying to get her off my back. She made herself out to be a music critic, but she didn't ask me any questions about my music. She was into the gay thing. Why didn't she ask my about my music? Anyway, life goes on.

So you lost your temper. Did it ever cross your mind that those comments might adversely affect the gay community?

Nope - Only if the gay community couldn't hear the tone of voice behind it. I thought I was protecting them. I thought what she wanted me to do was start screaming against homosexuals. That was her tone of voice: "What did I have to say against homosexuals?" I wasn't about to say anything against homosexuals. So I said, "Why do you act as though homosexuals are different from other people? Like you could tell them apart just from looking at them. You can't." Then I said, "I wouldn't know a homosexual if I saw one." And, indeed, most people would not know a homosexual if they saw one! They don't have any marks on them that say, "I AM A HOMOSEXUAL! " or a big H on their forehead. So I thought I was being good. I thought I was doing the right thing.

Did you see Richard Pryor's performance at the human rights benefit?

No.

When did you first hear about it?

Well, it was pretty weird. I was in the dressing room and I didn't have the p.a. on because I was learning my lines. The girls came in to say hello, and Ula said, "Gee, Ritchie Pryor just told the crowd to kiss his rich, black ass." I said, 'Ahh-haa-haa-haa.' I didn't think there was anything to it because I tell people to kiss my ass all the time and nobody ever comes down on me for it. So I didn't understand the negativity of it, you see. And I actually did not understand the scale of it until after the show when people came into my dressing room.

I went out there and I really suffered. I mean, I suffered. I didn't have any idea if this was a crowd that was ready to storm the stage. I knew it was an angry crowd. And I thought they were angry at me because I was the last one on the bill. And it was such a long evening and my manager had put the evening together. I couldn't wait to get off the stage. Couldn't wait.

You seemed totally off balance.

I was terrified. I thought, "Holy God, I'd better get out of here!"

So you went on not knowing the impact of Pryor's performance.

I didn't know until the end of the show when I came off stage - and I was shaking. And I thought, "Oh my God! Jesus, I never did this badly in my whole life. Aaron's going to be really upset with me." I tried, but I couldn't get the crowd under control. It was beyond me. I tried, but it kept slipping away. Then Aaron came into my dressing room and it was as if he had lost his best friends. I said, "Gee Aaron, I'm awfully sorry. I tried my best." And he said, "It's not you." "What is it then if it's not me?" And then he told me what had actually gone on. I was in shock. I was in shock!

In your opinion, did Pryor have a right to do what he did?

I'll tell you the truth - let me say that very few people agree with me - there was very little said about the issue that evening. Very little. Nobody addressed themselves to the issue. Richard Pryor actually addressed himself to the issue. It wasn't the most tasteful thing for him to do, but nevertheless, we all make choices in this life and that was Richard Pryor's choice.

Did he plan it?

Did he plan it? I have no way of knowing. But I'll tell you, when you're out there and you're faced with 17,000 people, you can't hear the laughs at all. The laughs go all the way over the hill, so you think you're dying when you're really not dying. That is a terrifying feeling for any performer. Richard may have been working too fast. He didn't hear his laughs and thought he wasn't doing well. So there's a human side to it, too. The part about the issue - someone should have spoken about the issue. It was all very sort of cosmetic, I felt. It certainly was an evening no one will evvverrr forget!

Had your manager not produced it, would you still have participated in an event that was basically for gay rights?

I don't see why not. Sure.

Why do I keep hearing that you're anxious to disassociate yourself from the gay movement?

Where do you hear that from? It can't be from anyone who knows me. Why do you ask me questions like that? Why do you pay attention to that kind of crap? Does it come from me? Have you no faith?

Will they never believe that I like them? Will they never believe? Will they never stop hocking me? What do I have to do? What do I have to do? Do you see what kind of position I'm in? I do the fucking evening and you ask me, if Aaron didn't produce it would I do it. I did it, for crissake! What more do you want from me? Aaron produced it, nobody else did. My manager did. Nobody else's manager spent a fucking three months doing it. My manager wanted to help out. So how can you do this to me? I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

What do I have to do? String myself up? For the rest of my life is the gay community going to come to me and start pulling at my skirts saying, "Do you love me, mommy? Do you love me?" Of course I like you. What do they want from me? I think they want me to die. I really do.

Who are the important people in your life?

My boyfriend - Peter. And ... I don't know.

Do you ever want to marry?

I think when you finally find someone that you really get on with so well, you can see how people would do it. I could do it, yeah.

Could you do it with Peter?

He's a wonderful man. Yes, I could. I really could. Ask me, will I? I don't know. But I could see where I would. I like him that well. I care for him that much.

Was it love at first sight?

Yes, it was. It absolutely was. And it's as if I've known him all my life. We've been together over a year and we've never had a fight. There's no reason to fight because we just work out what we have to work out.

When you met Peter, did your focus shift a bit from your career to your relationship?

I think so. I haven't had a whole lot in the personal life department, but I'm doing just fine now. It's great. I'm happy. But I have someone who really works hard at it as well. If it's going to be on one side, it's not going to work out either.

[Two tourists approach Midler.]

Tourist #1: Excuse me, we're from Toronto and we just want to say we think you're the greatest.

Midler: Oh, thank you.

Tourist #2: My daughter is ecstatic over you. When I tell her I had lunch at the table next to you, she isn't going to believe me.

Midler: Oh, that's great.

Tourist #2: You're a tremendously talented young lady. 

Midler: Thank you.

Tourist #2: Tremendous. The best. [The Canadians scurry over to the cashier.]

Midler: Ooohhh! That's nice.

Is being famous anything like you thought it would be? 

No.

What is it like?

Well, it's not much different than not being famous. 

Is fame a let down?

There are wonderful parts about fame. The system is such that when you're a celebrity, you're kind of an aristocrat and people pay attention to you, and they fuss over you and stuff, and that's great. I love that part. What part don't I like? There's none of it that I don't like. I think the whole thing is fabulous.

I don't think I've reached my peak yet. I'm just on the verge. It's very exciting. I feel like I'm going to break out all over again. It's really a wonderful feeling.

What do you respect most about yourself?

I guess my imagination ... and my tenacity. 

What would you like to change?

I'd like to stop being so hard on myself. I put myself through a lot. I wonder why I can't do things the first time I try them. I always forget that you have to practice and you have to work your way up to things. You can't be a ballerina without knowing how to be a ballerina. And I'm very hard on myself, because if I had may way, I would have been a ballerina. Immediately. "Of course I can wear those shoes!" But you can't. They hurt like hell. So, there you have it. I'm hard on myself because I'm not perfect.

Do you like the way you look?

Sometimes. Sometimes I look great. Sometimes I don't look so hot.

What's your best physical feature?

My feet. I have great feet.

Do you often show people your feet?

All the time - but only to people who mean a lot to me.

When did you realize you were a performer?

I guess when I was about 16. I'd always sung and I'd always been good in front of an audience, but I never thought I had a gift for performing. I always took it for granted.

How does your family respond to your success?

My mother likes it a lot. My father pays no attention at all.

Do they come to see you perform?

My mom does. My daddy doesn't.

If they weren't blood relatives, are your parents the kind of people you'd want to spend time with?

Weeelll. They've got real good hearts. They're sincere, hard-working people, and I like that. Those are things that I admire about people. I've got a middle-class sense of values, you know. So I don't know if I'd spend a lot of time with them, but I'd have a lot of respect for them.

Do you believe in God?

Sure. He's a great big man with a great big long white beard and blue eyes. And he lives behind a cloud. 

Does God take care of you?

No. No. He just lives there. He doesn't do anything. 

Is God of any use to you?

Well, it's someone to talk to, you know. I have lots of different ideas about God. I think everybody does. That was my baby idea. I don't think a whole lot about it except in times of great stress and panic. Then, of course, we all give him a call on the old line. .."Operator? ..."

Do you believe in death?

Well - there's no getting around that one. That certainly exists.

But is it permanent?

I think it's permanent for some and semi-permanent for others.

What is it for you?

I would like to do my work on earth and leave my work to live on after me. I hope it gets good enough to where I'd like to leave it. I guess that's sort of Protestant of me to believe that your work is your legacy and your name lives on through what you leave behind.

Are you proud of your work so far?

Some of it's good, and some of it's not good.

Would you like to live forever?

Oh yes, I think that would be very nice. But I'd have to be in the prime of youth. I don't think I'd like to live as a crone forever. I mean, that's not a lot of laughs.

What age would you like to freeze at?

I think about six months ago, when I had just lost a lot of weight. God, I was skinny. I looked terrific. I was on that protein stuff that's killing people left and right, according to the AMA. They won't let you have any fun. They're such spoiled sports. Oh, they're a bunch of shit heads!

Do you believe we are what we eat?

I guess so. God, yes.

Are you careful about what you eat?

No. I don't pay a lot of attention. I think that's why I'm sick now.

Do a lot of people come on to you sexually?

That's part of the reason I don't go out. I'm not very good at dealing with that. I'm also not good at dealing with the rejection.

Do you have many sex fantasies?

I have none. I have no sexual fantasies - ever. 

But you said you're imaginative.

I'm imaginative, but I don't think my imagination is sexual.

Are you sexually innovative?

I might not think of myself as sexually innovative, but that doesn't mean that I'm not. I only live in this body. I only know what this mind knows. I think my sexuality is either greater or less than other people's. It's probably greater than some and less than others.

I don't spend a lot of time thinking about sex, if that's what you want to know. I'm not preoccupied with it. It's not my reason for living, or my reason for dying, or my reason for working. I think it might have been my reason for working in the beginning, but it's not any more.

Please explain.

Affection, wanting warmth and love and acceptance, that's all of a sexual nature. I wanted that in great doses. But it's satisfied now. I'm not as hungry as I once was. I'm a little older and I can get as much joy from one person as I do from 10,000.

Do you have a greater need for affection or for sex?

That's hard to say. I think it's about 50-50. Don't get me wrong. I think sex is great. Sex is great. And when you're not getting any, it's even better. That's when you really get crazed ... I guess I have a sexual imagination. People tell me I'm O.K. People tell me I'm really hot. I've never had a dissatisfied customer.

I think there's a lot of preoccupation with sex now. I think that's part of the reason I find myself distancing myself from it. In my whole life, whenever a crowd of people took something on as a cause ... Well, I'm not with crowds. I don't like mass thought. I don't like it when they're all doing one thing. I can't be a part of that. I have to go away and be on my own. I want to be myself. I want to be one alone .. I'll tell you, when nobody was into it, I was rrreallly into it.

Do you believe that a monogamous sexual relationship can work successfully?

Absolutely. Absolutely … I really, really do. I think I understand people who are promiscuous. But people are human beings and they just want so badly to be monogamous, no matter what kind of fight they put up. It's the nature of the animal to find one person that they can share a life with - as simple as that may be, or as complex as that may be. I do believe that.

I didn't used to until I found somebody I could stand. I think promiscuousness is caused by people who can't find anybody that they can actually stand to be with for more than a day or two. But sometimes you do find that, and when you do it's just great.

The key to that is not expecting too much from people. People have their joyous days and their really shitty days. If they give you that joy, you also have to put up with that ugliness too, and know that it will pass and the joy will come back.

But you really do have to have a lot of patience. Everything goes so fast these days there's no reason for people really to make an effort, 'cause there's always someone waiting around the corner. But then there's all that stuff that you miss - all that sharing, as corny as that sounds. GOD, I'M CORNY! .